Hello: My First Post :)

Gomanson · Post by **Gomanson** » Tue May 31, 2005 10:55 pm

I've always been a bit interested in astronomy and cosmology. A few nights ago we had the first starry night in a month and I got out my 50mm Meade (virtually a toy) that I got as a kid. I zoomed around the sky and decided to look at Jupiter. I was very suprised that the little dusty telescope was able to show me the four largest moons (with a 25mm EP [it's F600m btw.]) Well that resparked my interest and now I'm looking at buying a big kid's telescope

I'm looking for advice on what to get. I want to keep the cost under $400 if possible. I've spent a lot of time at the Orion website and they seem pretty good. I think a dob is out of the question because of the high portability I need. I would like to be able to see the Rings of Saturn and the clouds on Jupiter, as well as icecaps on Mars. I'm also interested in deep space objects. Is there any way to see galactic arms with a telescope in my price range?

Another question I need help on is motor drives for EQ mounts. Do they track automatically or is it just an easier way to manually move the telescope. What I mean is can you just set it up pointed at a star, walk away, come back an hour later and have the star still in view? Or does the motor just replace your hand for making on the fly tracking?

Btw I'm going to try to make it to Onan for the newbie cookout. I'm also trying to convince a friend to come too so we can split the gas money hehe/.

mlfj4901 · Post by **mlfj4901** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:54 am

Greetings,

A 6" dob would be still be pretty portable, they're a lot smaller than you might think, however it really depends on what you want in a scope. Do you want to starhop? Do you want a scope that moves to the object for you (GOTO)? Do you want a scope that tells you when your're pointed at the right object (Push To, ie. Orion Intelliscope dobs)?

A great site for choosing a telescope is here: http://www.mnastro.org/sigs/beginners/w ... begin.html it's an article by Ed Ting, a reliable source in the amaeuter astronomy community. www.cloudynights.com also has some wonderful reviews of telescopes. I think you're on the right track though with asking before you buy, and coming out to a starparty is the best way to get a look through other scopes to make sure you'll see what you want to see.

I really hope you can make it to the cookout/starparty on the 11th, but if you get the chance stop by the Cherry Grove starparty this weekend. If nothing else you'll get a chance to look through the 24" scope there. The downside is you might end up wanting to spend a lot more than $400

Good luck

-matt

Starforce2 · Post by **Starforce2** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:05 am

there's a 4.5 inch nextar newtonian on a tripod (collapsable) it's an atl/altz like your refractor probably is and it's a goto. I think it was 299 or something. It was on display at radio city.

Jon Hickman · Post by **Jon Hickman** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:45 pm

Hi, Gomanson, and welcome!

I agree completely with Matt (wow, you don't hear that everyday, do you Matt???) that taking the time to look around makes sense. I also agree with you that the Orion website is a good place to spend time. Astronomy Magazine has an excellent on-line article called: "Buying a Telescope" (see: http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=ss&id=9 ) It discusses different type of scopes and their relative advantages.

I also agree with Matt (gosh, twice in one day!) regarding the size of dobs (dobsonian mounted reflecting telescopes). A 6 inch or even 8 inch dob is really quite portable. I had a 10" for a few years that weighed less than 60 pounds with both the mount and the scope. I am a BIG believer in dobs as first scopes. They deliver the best value is dollar/inch of aperture and are incredibl easy to learn to use. Sometimes they can be upgraded to "push-to" scopes (as Matt points out with the Orion Intelliscope line). The only thing that a dob isn't particularly well suited for is astrophotography, and it was for this reason alone, that I sold my 10" dob. In retrospect, I was an idiot! (But that's another story...)

Getting out to a (or several) star parties before buying a scope is a good idea, too. Take the opportunity to look through several different types of scopes before you part with your hard earned money. The scope you want will still be there, and likely for the same $ amount, in a few weeks/months. Another idea is to continue to use the scope you have and to add some astronomical binoculars. THe June Beginners SIG meeting will discuss binocular astronomy (altho I haven't heard great things about the speaker!) and you will be amazed at all that you can see with binoculars! An added bonus is that if your passion for astronomy cools off a bit in a few months, a decent pair of binoculars always comes in handy!

Also, feel free to take advantage of members here as well as at star parties. Folks like John Young, Matt (see above post), Buzzygirl (aka: Jackie), Mike Kibat, myself, and countless others are always open to questions from fellow enthusiasts. I also remind people of one of my all time favorite songs from the movies at this point: "free advice, free advice, costs you nothing and it's worth the price!" Altho advice from Buzzy, John Young and Matt is generally "priceless"!

Buzzygirl · Post by **Buzzygirl** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:26 pm

Jon Hickman wrote:Altho advice from Buzzy, John Young and Matt is generally "priceless"!

Thanks, John... I think!

Welcome, Gomanson! The advice you were given in the previous few posts is good-- do check around at the links that were posted, get a feel for what's available, and what price ranges you'll be looking at. I especially recommend scopereviews.com and cloudynights.com for really comprehensive user reviews on popular models.

In actuality, you can buy a lot of scope nowadays for $400. I also agree with Matt and John that a Dob represents a great scope for beginners, and they really are pretty portable; even the 10" Dobs available from Orion and Hardin Optical are easily carried around by me (base+tube, around 55-60 lbs.) and provide a lot of aperture. The 8" Dob weighs less and costs less, but still provides nice views.

In an 8" or 10" Dob, you will be able to see details on Jupiter, such as cloud bands and whorls; deep-sky objects will show nice detail, star clusters will gleam big and bright, and the Moon will look like you're in orbit around it!

The drawbacks to a Dob are: no tracking capabilities (you can get equatorial platforms for larger, more expensive types of Dobs, but they are very expensive) and the larger ones can be bulky and heavy. But again, an 8" Dob is really quite portable.

EQ mounts are good if you want to track objects, and some of them come with go-to capabilities too. Watch out for the cheaper ones, though-- they can be somewhat rickety and not up to the task of holding larger Newtonian tubes or refractors over 4". Also, if you decide to get a Newtonian with an EQ mount, keep in mind that this setup may not be very convenient, as you'll have to carry the tube, the mount, and any accessories to your observing sites, which may necessitate several trips to your vehicle and back.

There is no one "perfect" telescope out there for everyone, but the best scope for you is one you will use a lot-- so, as you peruse websites and the Orion catalog, keep in mind that you'll have to strike a balance between portability, cost and ease of use.

Although I'm a self-confessed refractor nut, I would definitely recommend you get a Dob for the types of objects you want to look at.

youngsww · Post by **youngsww** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:06 pm

Gomanson,

Welcome to the MAS!

The advice you got from Buzzy is, as always, good. The advice you got from Matt is also good, although hearing that from me is rarer than pimples on a moon rock. Also the advice you got from Jon is good, and just trying to keep my dinner down as I type that is a real challenge!

Come to some star parties...we used to have them before Kocken invented clouds. I'll show you my 8" Orion Dob.

John Young

Gomanson · Post by **Gomanson** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:13 pm

Thanks for all the advice and resources, as well as the offers for sampling some telescopes. Now I remember why I thought a dob was out of the question, and this would include the binoculars too...
I AM interested in astrophotography, so without a telescope that tracks, I'll have a pretty hard time with that

Otherwise I would go for a dobsonian mount in a heartbeat. The GoTo option isn't that important to me, as I think part of the fun of astronomy is locating the objets meself. (Although I can't find anything more than the big dipper as of yet.)

Does anyone have any comments on this choice?

http://www.oriontelescopes.com/shopping ... ductID=382

I figure with accessories this one will bring me up to my budget. Accessories I'm thinking about are an electronic drive system and some kind of camera carriage.

Are we ever going to get to actually see the night sky???

Starforce2 · Post by **Starforce2** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:29 am

that problem with photography is the fact that you need a massive mount, and I seriously doubt what you linked to will do it. I'm not sure if photography is possible for less than 10g's, though there are people in the imaging sig that can help you. Ripple for one is a pro, you would do yourself good to pick their brains. Just make sure they have enough left when your done to keep making those nice images

Buzzygirl · Post by **Buzzygirl** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:18 am

Gomanson wrote:Does anyone have any comments on this choice?

Astrophotography, either film or CCD, requires a sturdy and accurate mount to do the job. While I like Orion's products, this particular mount isn't really suited for long exposures or precision CCD work. The problem is that most of the better mounts suitable for astro imaging cost way more than $400.

I'm not an expert on astrophotography, but I've talked with numerous people who are into it and it can be an expensive and time-consuming endeavor if you want to do it right. That said, there is some nice work being done with cheap webcams that have been converted for astro use (Philips' TouCam is one I see mentioned a lot) so that might be a good way to get started.

I would post something in the Imaging SIG forums about what you want to do and the money you have to work with. Those folks are far more knowledgable than I am on this subject.

Good luck!

Jon Hickman · Post by **Jon Hickman** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:34 am

Gomanson,

Once again, Buzzy is right on. That particular Orion mount will cause MUCH frustration for astrophotography. The only 2 they offer that can get you into the early stages of astrophotog are the "Skyview Pro" series (they sell a 100mm achrochromat on this mount for $469) or a much better choice of the Atlas mount (about $800 without any optics).

There are lots of easy (and very cheap) ways to help stabilize a cheaper mount (like the Skyview Pro) for beginning photog work. And the really good news is that the $10K level mentioned by Starforce, while desirable, is not an absolute requirement for functional astrophotography. My LX200GPS series 10" SCT from Meade is used with the included tripod and I've acheived the results I wanted. (My intent was to catalog my observations, not become an award winning professional like Ripple!)

rbubany · Post by **rbubany** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:49 am

Well, Rookie Ron has been trying for nearly a year now to do some decent deep sky photography. I HAVE the Orion SkyView Pro mount mentioned earlier and...

It will track excellently for visual observing, but for photography it just isn't enough of a mount. The gears "slap" every now and then, and sometimes when you try to manually guide in one direction the gears will first move it in the opposite direction before going where you want them to. These are only slight movements, but they are a disaster when doing long exposures.

I recently moved up to the Orion Atlas mount but haven't tried it yet because of the clouds and the fact that I am in the process of moving.

It's HEAVY!

Jon Hickman · Post by **Jon Hickman** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:26 am

When I had my Skyview Pro, I hung a bucket (ice cream pail) of rocks and water from a chain suspended from the centerpoint under the mount itself. This did a remarkably good job of damping wiggles and wobbles. I never did anything over about 2 minutes exposure at a time, and never encountered the bumps Ron mentioned. I did find that the gears liked a bit of a "push" to get started when tracking (clock motion).

rbubany · Post by **rbubany** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:19 pm

Yes. The SVP can do a good job with relatively short exposures such as two minutes.

What I have been trying to do involves much longer times - 30 minutes to an hour. Even two hours once.

What I found was that the mount would track beautifully for a few minutes and then all of a sudden skew away from target. When I try to correct, it then "bounces" in the wrong direction first. Resulting in an exaggeration of the mis-alignment.

Certainly for the price it is an excellent mount. I just wouldn't expact Matt Russell type images when using it. One would need something much more sophisticated.

Which I can't afford.

PS: I can't use the pail of rocks because I threw it at the neighbor and she won't give it back.

Jon Hickman · Post by **Jon Hickman** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:46 pm

Which begs the question, why did you throw a pail of rocks at the neighbor?

rbubany · Post by **rbubany** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:54 pm

See my "Aaaaaaaarrrgghh" topic. She's the one with all of the lights and the slide that you go up one side and slide down the other.

Jon Hickman · Post by **Jon Hickman** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:15 pm

So THAT'S how slides work.....

Gomanson · Post by **Gomanson** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:04 pm

Wow thanks for all the responses. I guess I should have stated better how much I was interested in astrophotography. I just want to be able to do it period. I'm not looking for quality; just to dabble. Any results would be fun I think. I think it would be cool to be able to show friends and family what you're looking at, even when the telescope isnt there with you.

P.S. does anyone have anything in their personal galleries?

youngsww · Post by **youngsww** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:28 pm

Gomanson,
I would suggest you get in touch with Chimera6505, who will be at your same skill level (a newbie). Matt is a Senior at EPHS and a new member of the MAS. You can help each other work your way through the interesting field of astrophotography. Please consult the experts, Russ Durkee, Ron Bubanx and Bill Bynum. (and by experts, I mean those who know a SLIGHT bit more than you do, but can still be extremely interesting to listen to).

John Young

SEmert · Post by **SEmert** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:00 pm

youngsww wrote:Bubanx

?

Was that intentional? Do you secretly work for the St. Paul Pioneer Press in the art department, titling the pictures??

youngsww · Post by **youngsww** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:47 pm

Steve, you should know me well enough by now that Mr. Ron Bubany will FOREVERMORE be known as Ron Bubanx, as he was christened by the St. P. P D. That is one of the prices he must pay for being famous...just ask his buddies Jessica Simpson and Brad Pitt!

SEmert · Post by **SEmert** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:48 pm

youngsww wrote:..just ask his buddies Jessica Simpson...

Woo Hoo. If Jessica Simpson is one of Ron's buddies, I'm gonna stick by his side as much as I can!!

rbubany · Post by **rbubany** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:59 am

Aaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!!