Apollo's Flawed Legacy

[heinerv]

Well, while we are all celebrating the 50th anniversary here's a you tube discuss with some interesting ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0ERXwhn-5w

Make sure you watch the whole presentation to get the complete picture on why Apollo's legacy might be flawed. I'll be interested in your comments.

[Deane Clark]

I didn’t hear anything to argue with in it. She’s spot-on in most respects. Much of the lesser known background info was also covered in the excellent PBS documentary Chasing the Moon.

The only statement I would disagree with is that we will never again be in a similar competitive situation with another country that spurs us to do such a thing. Never is a big word. But I’d rather we not get into such a situation despite the possible technical and scientific achievements that might result. Along with the space race, we also had the Cuban missile crisis, and Vietnam, etc.

[heinerv]

I'm not sure our government is capable of sustaining a large program for many years. As the video points out we had a couple of tries which ran out of gas or were cancelled.

It may take a SpaceX or Blue Origin to pull it off.

China is able to plan for decades so they may end up getting to moon and/or Mars.

[Wayne]

The first steps to space started long before President Eisenhower. So many dominoes had to fall just right to get us into space.

It wasn’t only the politicians who needed to believe we could and should go to space. Wernher Von Braun and others had been selling the idea, but it just wasn’t gaining traction. Other power brokers and the people who elected the politicians also had to believe.

In May of 1955, Walt Disney aired a TV program, Man in Space. It was a collaboration between Disney and “rocket scientist” Von Braun, plus Heinz Haber, Willy Ley, etc. Using animation and explanations by the experts, 42 million Americans saw how we can get into space and just how exciting it could be.

President Eisenhower immediately asked Disney for a copy of the program to show to the brass in the Pentagon who thought space was “Buck Rogers science fiction”.

Suddenly, going to space was no longer fantasy. Los Angeles Herald & Express reflected the changed sentiment across the country: “Walt Disney … has discovered the trigger that may blast loose this country’s financial resources and place the Stars and Stripes of the United States aboard the first inhabited earth satellite… Half of the voting population of the USA has probably reached two impressive conclusions: ‘It CAN be done!’ and ‘Let’s get on with it!’”

Four months later, President Eisenhower announced the plan to launch satellites for the IGY.

Stephen Bales, Apollo 11 Mission Control Guidance Officer, said "This show, … probably more than anything else, influenced me to study aerospace engineering. And this wasn't the ordinary thing to do for a boy raised in a small Iowa farming community. “

Homer Hickman, NASA Engineer and author of Rocket Boys (movie October Sky based on his life) said: “… here was this German man earnestly telling a smiling Walt Disney that rockets could be built that could launch satellites into space and even take people to the moon! I remember thinking, ‘Growing up is going to be so much fun!’"

The NASA History First 50 Years sums it up: “[von Braun’s continued]… influence stemmed largely from the impact of Collier’s and Disney on a generation of rocket engineers and space enthusiasts…. It is fair to say that Disney helped solidify a “von Braun paradigm” of four main elements (shuttle, station, Moon, Mars) in the minds of the public, which was now more likely to believe that spaceflight would soon become a reality.”

Apollo did not ruin space flight. We just need to get the necessary dominoes lined up again. In 1965 and again in 1988, the Disney company was asked to again inspire interest in the space program. Ward Kimball, the Minnesota native who was the Director of Man in Space, said, “We (as a nation) don’t know why we’re in space right now. We must define the reasons…. We (Disney) can’t simply say great things about space travel, we have to prove it with visuals and sound so the audience cannot deny the value and virtue — so your heart soars when you experience it.”

[Deane Clark]

Just to be clear, I don’t think anyone said Apollo “ruined” space flight. She makes the point that the Apollo project was able to achieve what it did due to specific historical circumstances that she doesn’t believe will happen again, and therefore continuing to try to replicate the same type of project is doomed to keep failing. Space flight is still worth doing and still captures many people’s imagination, but those two things aren’t sufficient to get the next big steps accomplished, steps that will take longer than one presidential administration to do.

[Wayne]

Although she did say "...the legacy of Apollo is crippling.... Apollo ruined spaceflight" in her intro, you are right, it was not a thesis statement. It was apparently meant as a provocative exaggeration to keep us watching.

[Deane Clark]

Good catch. I was going from the impression it left me with.

[Ron Schmit]

I typically enjoy Amy's vlog, but the statement that Kennedy "called to cancel Apollo" (starting at 15:39) is just not accurate. The transcript of JFK's address to the UN, that she cites (9/20/1963,) may be found here:

https://www.jfklibrary.org/archives/oth ... s-19630920

While he does speak of hope for international cooperation in space exploration, at NO point does he call for the cancellation of our current program, nor does he even mention Apollo. If this is indeed the source of her conclusion, I think there's room here for other interpretations.

Also, I am at a loss to explain what she actually means by "Apollo's Legacy is Keeping Us Grounded". Legacy implies something left behind. I don't think it would be accurate to say that "What Apollo Left Behind, is Keeping Us Grounded." In fact, I think the opposite is true. Because of technologies, developed in Apollo, we CAN fly in space. We could go right back to big dumb boosters to lift payload (like the Saturn V) and a proven capsule spacecraft to carry humans (like Orion.)

After watching the video, I would say a more accurate summary (if that is what the title is supposed to provide) would be "Space Exploration Languishes Without the Political Climate of the 1960's." If she is, instead, saying that "we are not going to accomplish our goals of space travel today, because we lack the competition of the Soviets," I would have to say, instead, that in the SIXTIES, "we would not have gone to the Moon without the competitive push of the Soviets." I think that is correct. And, I'm not sure that going to the Moon would happen today without that same impetus. However, today there are other driving forces which will act as a substitute. SpaceX has innovated wildly with money being a perfectly good competitive force. Who is ever going to fly on an Atlas V for $300M, when you can fly on a Falcon for $60M?

If there persists a reason for going into space (read $$), that will likely continue, but will we ever again see a government-sponsored exploration just "because it is there"? Here are the Top Ten Google Searches for Saturday, July 20, 2019, ON THE DAY of the anniversary of landing on the Moon:

1 - Mahershala Ali (2M+ searches): Marvel Announces Blade Reboot With Mahershala Ali.
2 - Manny Pacquiao (500K+): Manny Pacquiao defeats Keith Thurman via split decision.
3 - Shane Lowry (200K+): Shane Lowry Wins Emotional British Open
4 - Real Madrid (200K+): Gareth Bale appears close to leaving Real Madrid as his agent calls Zinedine Zidane a 'disgrace'
5 - Avengers: Endgame (200K+): 'Avengers: Endgame' is now the highest-grossing film of all time, dethroning 'Avatar'
6 - Peppa pig height (200K+): The internet is going hog wild over Peppa Pig. Here's a brief history of the cartoon pig's life as a meme
7 - Simu Liu (200K+): Simu Liu, Marvel's latest leading man, will soon be a 'household name'
8 - Consumers Energy (100K+): Consumers Energy releasing new details on power outages
9 - Zlatan Ibrahimovic (50K+): Perfect: Zlatan Ibrahimovic makes history with El Trafico hat trick
10 - Fortnite event (50K+): 'Fortnite': After The Monster Event, It's Time For A New Map In Season 10


Gotta admit... I have my doubts.

Our work here is not yet finished.

[heinerv]

On a lighter side another annoying legacy for a couple of decades was: "If they can put a man on the moon why can't we 'fill in your cause'"?.