1st Telescope recommendations

[tmcheesebrow]

I know this has been asked before, but while helpful the answers didn't all speak to my specific situation.

Basically, I'm hoping for a magic bullet solution...don't know if it exists, but I thought it was worth throwing it out to the hive mind to see if there is something out there.

What I'm looking for:
- Something portable. My in-laws have a cabin in dark sky country. I want to bring it there as often as possible
- GoTo mount. Lazy...yes. maybe, but I have 3 young children who are interested at this point. I want to nurture that curiosity and waiting for me to find objects in the sky is a barrier at my skill level.
- Big enough aperture. I don't want to succumb to aperture fever, but I do want to be able to see deep sky objects. I've been loving the 10" dob on loan from the club.
- potential for astrophotography. I know this requires extra equipment that I may not be able to afford right away, I want whatever scope I get to be able to be used as a decent astrophotography scope so I can grow into it. My wife and I have a photography business. It's a deep interest of ours.
- Budget...This is the limiting factor. I'm just a musician and teacher. Neither pay very well so I don't want to spend thousands on this.

Is there a good scope out there for what I'm looking for?

[Sureshks]

Hi Tim,

Based on what you are looking for, I suggest that you look into a Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope (SCT). The SCT market is controlled by Celestron and Meade.

You asked for portable, and SCTs are among the most portable scopes available. They generally range is size from 6-16". I would suggest an 8" for you, based on what you wrote here. They get significantly bulkier and heavier once you go above 8".

8" aperture gives you enough light gathering power to view and photograph all Messier, Caldwell and Herschel I objects. Though they're not quite as good optically as refractors, Newtonians or Maksutovs, they can be pretty good on the planets/Moon.

SCTs are versatile enough that many people use them for astrophotography, and there is a ready catalog of visual and imaging equipment available for SCTs. Some people shoot piggybacked on top of an SCT, while others shoot thru the scope (prime focus). SCTs are f/10 systems, which are generally too slow for regular imaging. However, in recent years several reducers have come onto the market (OWL 0.4x, Hyperstar...) than greatly speed up SCTs and make them phenomenal for astro-imaging. We have members in our club that image thru SCTs at f/4 or f/1.9... lightning fast.

Tracking/GoTo: SCTs generally come with tracking systems built into the package, as well as GoTo with thousands of objects available. You can mount an SCT in 3 ways -- Single Fork Arm (see the Celestron NexStar series -- good for visual use primarily), Dual Form Arm (See Celestron CPC Series and most Meade SCTs -- good for both visual/imaging), or mounted onto a German Eq. Mount (GEMs). Beginners can struggle learning how to set up and polar align GEMs, and they are typically more expensive and less portable than the fork armed SCTs... I generally dissuade beginners from going this route. However, if you're absolutely certain that you want to do deep sky imaging thru the scope, get a GEM. They are much more precise, do not have field rotation issues, and can hold more weight than a fork mounted system.

Price: here's the rub. SCTs are not the cheapest system. Expect to spend $2,000-$3,000 on an 8" SCT system. You can sometimes save $$$ by getting a used system. Remember, you're asking for a scope that can do it all, and SCTs come the closest and cheapest to get you there all-in-one.

Some versions to consider:

A new basic Celestron 8" dual-fork mounted CPC is $2,000: https://www.celestron.com/products/cpc- ... -telescope

A basic Meade 8" dual-fork SCT $1,800: https://www.highpointscientific.com/mea ... 0810-90-03

As mentioned, instead of getting a fork mounted SCT system, some people choose to put their scope on a GEM mount. These start at around $1,000 (AVX) and go up to $7,000 (Paramount). Obviously, don't get the Paramount.

Here is a basic Celestron 8" SCT + AVX GEM system: https://www.highpointscientific.com/cel ... cope-12026

Please note that though the AVX works, and we have members who use them... an 8" OTA is getting up there in terms of the weight on what an AVX can hold (remember imaging adds a camera, guide scope, guide camera, etc). If you went this route, I would recommend that you look at bigger mounts such as the Sky-Watcher EQ6r-Pro ($1,600 mount only), Celestron CGX ($2,300), Losmandy G8/G11 or one of the iOptron GEM mounts.

I know that there's a lot here to digest, but the bottom line is that an 8" SCT from Celestron or Meade is probably your best option for what you want to do.

Let me know if you have further questions. It might be worth your while to attend an upcoming public night at ELO or a B-SIG session at Metcalf to get some more information. The next B-SIG session is scheduled for 9/25. I'll be posting about it in the next couple days...

I hope this helps!

Suresh

[tmcheesebrow]

Wow! Thank you Suresh!

So much good information. A lot to digest and talk with my spouse about. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to write it all down.

I look forward to meeting you at the upcoming event!
Cheers,
Tim

[SEmert]

I second the recommendation for the C8 on an AVX mount. While I don't do imaging, it is a good GoTo mount and I know several others who successfully do imaging with it. I fit mine in a pair of inexpensive tub containers, re-using the packing material the OTA and mount head came in, with an inexpensive nylon bag for the tripod. With that, it is decently portable.

Here it is from another vendor, OPT. I'm told (but never verified that MAS members get a discount at OPT. Worth a try. https://optcorp.com/products/celestron- ... d-vx-8-sct

If you want to forego the future imaging capability you could save some money with the C8 on a NexStar single-arm fork mount. Here's an example: https://optcorp.com/collections/telesco ... exstar-8se

[ddn]

I will speak to the astrophotography part. The telescopes/mounts recommended will work fine for visual, however the long focal lengths for beginning astrophotography gives you a very large learning curve. Since you own some DSLRs and some lenses I suggest you use those to start the astrophotography. I have taken some very satisfying pictures with a 200mm zoom lens on my Canon 70D.

The only real purchase you need to make is a mount. I have a Star Adventurer (Astro -package) and it works quite well. Having said that I might have gotten a different mount when I started. Finding an object is harder than one may think. Not impossible, but frustration is one of those things you want to eliminate. An iOptron SmartEQ Pro+ would be one I would look at. Small, light, with a controller, but more importantly for astrophotography, can be controlled by a laptop. Laptops (there are some other choices here) make life as an astrophotographer much better.

PM me if you would like to talk about it sometime. I can set up a google meet with some other folks and we can talk further.

Doug N.

[tugger]

I will speak to the astrophotography part. The telescopes/mounts recommended will work fine for visual, however the long focal lengths for beginning astrophotography gives you a very large learning curve. Since you own some DSLRs and some lenses I suggest you use those to start the astrophotography. I have taken some very satisfying pictures with a 200mm zoom lens on my Canon 70D.

The only real purchase you need to make is a mount. I have a Star Adventurer (Astro -package) and it works quite well. Having said that I might have gotten a different mount when I started. Finding an object is harder than one may think. Not impossible, but frustration is one of those things you want to eliminate. An iOptron SmartEQ Pro+ would be one I would look at. Small, light, with a controller, but more importantly for astrophotography, can be controlled by a laptop. Laptops (there are some other choices here) make life as an astrophotographer much better.

PM me if you would like to talk about it sometime. I can set up a google meet with some other folks and we can talk further.

Doug N.

Doug is correct with the longer focal lengths as a beginner - they are less forgiving and will require a guider. I started with a camera and lens on an AVX and moved up from there. Like Doug said, I would suggest you start with a mount like the AVX or iOptron to get into it with laptop control and the camera lenses.

[BradNasset]

Tim- Couple other things just for budgetary consideration.

1. Dew control- For me this was the biggest 'unwelcome surprise' starting out. If you get a Celestron (with the front-face corrector lens) it will fog up with dew within about 10-20 minutes on many/most nights, making the scope useless, so some dew heater stuff would be in order. Example: Dew heater controller (~$110), Dew heater band to go around the end of the scope (~$45), dew shield tube for over front of scope (~$45), battery to run the dew heaters (any lawn tractor battery sort of size, and charger- Li-ion batteries are lighter tho). A dew heater band to go around the eyepiece is nice, but I went quite a while before I got one. Dew heater band for finder scope is needed too, or it will fog up in a short while. A newtonian scope may not dew up quite so fast, but its finder scope will.

2. Finder scope- scopes come with one, and can be ok for a long time, but a Telrad finder scope is REALLY nice as many star charts and software packages have Telrad guides built in to help find things. I find a non-lighted finder scope (one without a red dot built in for pointing) almost impossible to use in the dark. (Oh, then a dew heater for the Telrad or that will fog up in a few minutes also)

3. Eyepieces - an endless pit where you throw money. Just hold off for a while until you get going. For every 10 people, there are 12 opinions on eyepieces, so here is mine for your budgetary thinking: Don't spend money on $40 eyepieces. Celestron X-Cell are ok ($90-ish. $150-200 eyepieces are good. It takes quite an experienced eye to see the beauty of a $300-$500 eyepiece. Above that in price- you have reached a higher level and will have your own opinions. For most observing I find about four eyepiece ranges are good enough: LOW magnification for widest field of view= maybe 36X, LOW/MID magnification of 80-150X, (100-125x is a nice sweet spot for me and where I live), HIGH/MID magnification maybe 225X if sky is good, HIGHER magnification 250-350x with sky being good enough maybe every 2-3 months for HIGH. If only two pick 80-100x and 200-250x. These will keep you entertained for a long while.

4. Software: Get a couple $0 - $20 apps. Celestron has a good one for free on their website - maybe all you will need. You don't NEED a computer or iPad to run scope. It comes with the hand controller where, once you know what you want to look at, just enter its name in the hand controller and press 'GO'.

I have been around this hobby for a while, but like everyone, still learning. Hope this helped.
Just my thoughts- Have fun!
Brad

[SEmert]

1. Dew control- For me this was the biggest 'unwelcome surprise' starting out. If you get a Celestron (with the front-face corrector lens) it will fog up with dew within about 10-20 minutes on many/most nights, making the scope useless, so some dew heater stuff would be in order.

Actually, that is any Schmidt Cassegrain, or even Maksotov Cassegrain, no matter the brand.

Example: Dew heater controller (~$110), Dew heater band to go around the end of the scope (~$45), dew shield tube for over front of scope (~$45), battery to run the dew heaters (any lawn tractor battery sort of size, and charger- Li-ion batteries are lighter tho). A dew heater band to go around the eyepiece is nice, but I went quite a while before I got one. Dew heater band for finder scope is needed too, or it will fog up in a short while. A Newtonian scope may not dew up quite so fast, but its finder scope will.

If you are an electrically-inclined do-it-yourselfer, you can save considerable money by making your own dew straps and controller.
This is one of many web sites that describe how to make resistor ladder dew heaters. https://www.dewbuster.com/heater-resistors.html
I've made the resistor ladders and sandwich them between black Gorilla tape or T-Rex tape (very strong duct tape). You can use the double-side Velcro strips used for PC workstation or entertainment center cable management, with the end sandwiched in between the end of the duct tape to make it self-adhesive.

For controllers, there are several inexpensive solutions on eBay. Search for LED dimmer. If you are inclined to make a multi-channel controller box, use the guts out of a couple dimmers like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Manual-Dimmer- ... %3A2334524

If you're not inclined to go that way, there are also inline ones that use round power plugs: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Inline-Manual- ... SwwN1dyNpp

For the battery, there are 7AH and 9AH batteries in the fishing section of FleetFarm. Miscellaneous connectors can be found at parts-express.com and other places.

2. Finder scope- scopes come with one, and can be ok for a long time, but a Telrad finder scope is REALLY nice as many star charts and software packages have Telrad guides built in to help find things. I find a non-lighted finder scope (one without a red dot built in for pointing) almost impossible to use in the dark. (Oh, then a dew heater for the Telrad or that will fog up in a few minutes also)

And unfortunately Telrads need dew control too! A 120 ohm 1 or 2 watt resistor mounted at the bottom of the window on the inside will do the trick. (There are commercial dew heaters available as well.)

[SEmert]

Price: here's the rub. SCTs are not the cheapest system. Expect to spend $2,000-$3,000 on an 8" SCT system. You can sometimes save $$$ by getting a used system. Remember, you're asking for a scope that can do it all, and SCTs come the closest and cheapest to get you there all-in-one.

We forgot to emphasize this before, but used is actually a very good way to go. CloudyNights.com has a want-ad section in their discussion forum, and astromart.com is probably the best place to look for used bargains. Both sites are generally better than Craig's List or eBay or Facebook Marketplace as they are populated almost exclusively by experienced amateur astronomers and can be less risky than the more general sites.