My first scope... well... maybe...

rallen911 · Post by **rallen911** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:45 pm

Hello all,

I have been lurking around the forums here for about 4 months or so, and I am getting a good feeling about the people that belong to the MAS.

That said, I need some advice. I am really getting the itch to purchase my first scope. It most likely won't be for another few months, so I'm not in any hurry. I've waited 35 years, so another few months won't kill me.

I do own a pair of Oberwerk 80 x 100 binocs that I have enjoyed looking through, and I think I am ready to take the next step.

Regretably, I have not been able to make it to any MAS meetings or events to get any hands-on experience with the different types of scopes available. Being new to astronomy, I am pretty sure that I want to try looking at everything while getting started. I want to see the rings of Saturn, the polar caps on Mars ( missed my best chance for a while ), moons of Jupiter, all the Messier objects, you name it.

My first inclination was to get a Meade go-to ( probably ETX-105 ), but I just couldn't get over the $1000 price tag. I wanted to start seeing things the first time I set-up. I know that a go-to is good for that, but I also didn't want to not become better acquainted with the night sky. I want to know what constellations are out and I want to be able to find them. I also want to know that Mxx is in or near such and such constellation. I think that would be a great feeling to be able to do that. I know that it will take a long time of observing to get there. I wasn't sure that the 105mm would allow me to see everything I want to see. ( Should have come out to an event. )

Then I started thinking about getting a Dob. I found that I can get a heck of a lot more aperature for a lot less money. I also know that I don't want to get something so big that I won't use it. The Orion XT8 has caught my eye, but I wanted to get some first hand knowledge from you. I know this is the beginner's SIG, but I am sure all of you have gone through this process to some degree.

If you have any other suggestions on other things I should be looking for, please let me know!

I greatly appreciate any advice and insights you can offer!!

Thanks,

- rallen911 -

mlfj4901 · Post by **mlfj4901** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:03 am

I know this is the beginner's SIG, but I am sure all of you have gone through this process to some degree.

Greetings,

This is the perfect place to post this message, as not only have many of us gone through this same ordeal, but some are currently going though it.

Being an owner of an Orion XT8, I'm a bit biased towards dobsonian reflectors.... I love my scope.

Regardless of my biasness though, dob reflectors are a good general purpose scope. Refractors are better for planetary and wide field viewing, but the planets look pretty darn good in my 8" dob as well.

Don't worry about seeing something your first time out with your dob. Purchase a Telrad/Rigel or some other reflex finder, and start with the moon as your first target using a low power eyepiece. You're virtually gaurenteed to find it. And after you get that go for some of the easier and brighter objects, and you'll find it's much easier than you think to find what you're looking for.

If you're able to make it to the "BAD for Beginners" event the BSIG is having in January, I'll have my 8" XT8 available. You're more than welcome to check it out hands on. There should be some other scopes there as well.

Good luck on your scope hunting,

-matt

Jon Hickman · Post by **Jon Hickman** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:58 am

Welcome!

Not knowing anything about anything, I bought a Meade ETX70 as my first scope, basically because it and I were in the store at the same time....

It was a great little scope, and allowed me to see many things. About a year after buying the Meade I got a fantastic deal on a Hardin 10" DOB and bought it. Having a small, easily transportable, Go To refractor (the 60, 70 and 80 are refractors, the 90, 105 & 125 are Maksutov-Cassegrains) AND a larger, bulkier DOB to choose from, I found myself leaning overwhelmingly towards the DOB. Even tho it was not equipt with the Go To capabilities, and I knew little of the night sky, the DOB was my scope of choice.

A few years back I sold my little ETX-70 and DSH-10 DOB and bought a 10" LX200GPS. I still miss my DSH-10, in fact, I recently ordered a new 10" DOB to replace it! In the meantime, I've acquired an ETX-105 to use as a travel scope. The 105 I purchased (used) had been outfitted with an add-on GPS unit, but I've never powered the scope up, I simply use the finder and push to the objects I want to see.

I still don't know the night sky nearly as well as I should, but what I know I learned from my DOB. I can't imagine any better scope for any beginner to start with, and to END with, for that matter! They are super easy to use, offer a lot of aperture for the money, light weight for moving around. The only 2 negatives I can think of for a DOB are that that they are not good for astrophotography, and they can be kind of bulky. Meade has recently introduced a line of truss tube DOBs in 8, 10, and 12" apertures (LightBridge). These get rid of some of the bulk issue.

Hopefully, my 10" LightBridge will be here in time for the B-SIG Cherry Grove event.

Ben Mullin · Post by **Ben Mullin** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:14 am

I don't know if you've made the leap and actually joined the MAS yet, but all members in good standing qualify for the telescope loaner program. Basically how it works is you contact me, and if one of the telescopes is in (2 8" and 1 10" Orion dobs) we get together some time somewhere and you take the scope and accessories home with you for a month. It would be a great way to get your feet wet and see if a dob of that size is really something you would be interested in or if you want to consider other options.

Otherwise making it out to the BSIG meeting at Cherry Grove would be great as well. Sounds like Matt will have his 8" dob and there will be people there to help you get aquainted with the mechanics. You're on your own with the loaner.

rallen911 · Post by **rallen911** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:16 pm

Thanks for all of the responses!

January 20th is my birthday, so I should be able to convince my wife to let me go... Unless she has something planned already!

It sounds like dob might be the thing for me. I look forward to trying some out. I'm going to have find some uber warm clothing.

I haven't joined MAS... yet. I wanted to make it to a few events and see what's what first. From the forums it appears to be full of enthusiastic and helpful people. This summer never seemed to work out. Maybe this winter will be better.

Thanks again,

- rallen911 -

Kevin Seal · Post by **Kevin Seal** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:03 pm

"Hopefully, my 10" LightBridge will be here in time for the B-SIG Cherry Grove event."

I hope you get it by then too Jon, as I'd be curious to check it out!

In regards to the first scope question, I will have to repeat here what everyone has said in saying that a mid-sized(8-10 inch) DOB is probably the best overall scope for a beginner. It's the most aperture and optical quality you can get for the money, it's still portable enough to fit in the back seat of a car, and its a scope that you could feasibly never grow out of. The dobsonian movements are also very intuitive and easy to learn, and it's not a stretch to assume that you could see many things on your first night out, especially if you went to a MAS star party where there would be plenty of people to help with any problems you might have.

My first scope (bought a little over a year ago) was an Orion XT10. I went with the 10 inch because hey, aperture counts, and its also about as portable as the 8 inch (exact same tube length, I believe). I really couldn't be happier, for the most part. I'm looking at upgrading the focuser, and maybe making the motions a little smoother, but other than that, the scope has quality optics and provides great views. Earlier this month, I had Saturn pushed up to 500X and there was amazing detail during stretches of clear seeing. I will also have that set up at CGO on the 20th as an example of a good first scope for an ambitious beginner.

Later on, I bought a Stellarvue 80mm Nighthawk, and thats my grab and go. Eventually, you will probably want a ultra-portable scope as well, but if you asked me to choose between the two, I would definitely choose the Dob.

Buzzygirl · Post by **Buzzygirl** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:23 pm

rallen911:

You're getting good advice. I would definitely steer you towards a Dob as your first scope. The amount of objects you can see with an 8" or 10" Dob can enthrall you for a lifetime, both for solar system objects and deep-sky objects.

The Hardin and Orion dobs are excellent values for the money. For around $500, you'll get a complete observing package, including a couple of decent eyepieces. A little assembly of the base is usually all that is required.

Dobs have another advantage of being very simple to use, and are thus ideal for beginners. It sounds as if you have some familiarity with the sky already, if you've used binocs for awhile.

As I'm sure you are aware, the bigger the aperture, the more you will see. If you can handle it (i.e., if you don't have back problems that limit your lifting capabilities) I would suggest going for the 10" Dob. I borrowed our club's 10" Orion Dob last spring and had no problems moving it even when it was fully assembled. The weight is around 55 lbs. when assembled, with the tube weighing in at around 35 lbs. and the base around 20 lbs.

I would also invest in a good star chart/atlas and a red flashlight, and you'd be all set.

Good luck with your choice. I hope to make your acquaintance at a star party sometime soon!

Chris White · Post by **Chris White** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:44 pm

Make sure you check out the specs on the 8" versus the 10" the 10" is significantly longer, bigger, and heavier that the 6" versus the 8" and sometimes people find the 10" does not fit in thier cars.

My next telescope will probably be betwen a dob and a goto, the one thing I don't like about a dob is tracking. If your able to resolve mars polar cap it will be moving pretty quickly in your eyepiece where you have constantly reposition, the only drawback I and think of (well no goto but, I think tracking is important so I am still on the fence for my next scope) is tracking (ignoring dob tracking platforms).

I would certainly try something before you buy it, I would certainly try and get ahold of a loaner and try and make it to a starparty or two. (anyone have a Coronado PST (Ha), Meade SN-10, or Celestron NexStar 8i?)

-Chris

Starforce2 · Post by **Starforce2** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:32 pm

I have an XT10 and it will fit in a taurus. If you have a 60/40 folding back seat you defenetly shouldn't have a problem, it fits in the taurus without using it. For another 100 bucks u can get the push too thingy, which I still can't get to work right...jurry still out on that. It comes with either the sky or that other one that tells you where everything is and if you get a deep map 600 you will have plenty of objects to find all on a waterproof starchart for about 15 bucks. They sellt hem I think at barnes and noble too.

Kevin Seal · Post by **Kevin Seal** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:01 am

Length Specs for Orion Dobs:

XT6: 45.5"
XT8: 45.5"
XT10: 47.8"

So there's not a huge difference between the 6, 8, or 10 in terms of length(which along with weight is probably the primary issue with portability).

But that two inches could make a difference. I have a Saab, and My XT10 fits across the back seat with little room to spare.

Chris White · Post by **Chris White** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:19 am

Starforce2 wrote:I have an XT10 and it will fit in a taurus. If you have a 60/40 folding back seat you defenetly shouldn't have a problem, it fits in the taurus without using it. For another 100 bucks u can get the push too thingy, which I still can't get to work right...jurry still out on that. It comes with either the sky or that other one that tells you where everything is and if you get a deep map 600 you will have plenty of objects to find all on a waterproof starchart for about 15 bucks. They sellt hem I think at barnes and noble too.

Your right I was thinking of the 12 versus the 10.

rallen911 · Post by **rallen911** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:37 pm

Thanks for the info on sizes. I have read posts about people making sure things will fit. I am in luck, though

, I have a mini-van, so I shouldn't have too much trouble fitting stuff. I can fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood in there (without kid ), so a little(?) scope shouldn't be a problem!!

I am really looking forward to January's meeting. It should be loads of fun.

- rallen911 -

Kevin Seal · Post by **Kevin Seal** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:15 pm

"I have a mini-van"

A mini-van, huh? Well then, you can just spring for the 20" Obsession!

SEmert · Post by **SEmert** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:52 pm

Kevin Seal wrote:A mini-van, huh? Well then, you can just spring for the 20" Obsession!

At least! The 24" BAD fits in mine with room to spare!

rallen911 · Post by **rallen911** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:05 am

My wife keeps giving me a hard time asking "We're not going to get one you need a trailer to move around are we?"

I was showing her some of the adds in the magazines for ones that come with a trailer.

I think I'll start with something a little more manageable.

- rallen911 -