Wait a sec... they can SEE this?

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Would you rather have this site public or private?

Public - Anyone can view, but need a password to post (current config)
9
47%
Private - Password needed to get access, view and post
10
53%
 
Total votes: 19

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Ron Schmit
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Wait a sec... they can SEE this?

Post by Ron Schmit »

Hey, folks. Turns out I've been living in a fantasy world for longer than I care to admit. (Sorry about that.) See, I thought that since our site needed a password, it must be a private site. Turns out it’s not. OK, so yeah, if you‘ve got a thing about having your name on “The Grid”, yup, it’s out there.
But hey, let me ask… Do we WANT this site to be public? I’ve always considered this to be a site where the club does its business. We’ve got a site for the public: www.mnastro.org. They can go there for all of their information. I can’t imagine why someone would want to visit the forums but not register.

I would say let’s lock this thing up, and keep this just between us. We do that and we won’t have any problems with names, handles, email addresses and privacy. What do you think, folks? Can I take a straw poll? I’m interested in your point of view.
Reece
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Post by Reece »

I know I advocated for privacy in the other thread, but I think it's possible to keep the forums public without compromising anyone's identity. I'll vote "public," but I don't feel strongly either way. If the forum is private, there's no need to worry about how we use our names/images/e-mails. If it's public, potential members can use the forum as a resource for any questions they might have, or to get a feel for the community before joining. Generally I am in support of transparency, but I don't want to create more work for the moderators either.

Feel free to take a look at my Metafilter profile for what I think is a pretty good combination of a both public and somewhat private listing. On that site, you have the option to divulge your real name in your profile if you aren't using it as your screen name. It doesn't show up in Google listings and can only be viewed by other members. If you decide to include your e-mail, you have the option to allow the public, other members, or no one at all to view it.
If you choose to let the public view it, it's listed as "copernicus at astronomy dot com." The reason they do this is because spammers have developed software to scour the internet looking for the "xxxxx@xxxx.com" form to add to mailing lists. Bots don't recognize e-mail addresses in the other form.

The other thing I like about Metafilter profiles is that you can link to your profiles on other commonly-used sites you're on like Flickr, Last.FM, etc. I don't know how much work it would take here, though, so I won't go pushing for it.

Also: first vote = 100% unanimity...w00t!
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TimBiros
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Post by TimBiros »

Mike Kibat insured that the Onan Keyholder forum was private for good reasons. He didn't want everyone in the world knowing that you were volunteering to man the observatory -- and thus not at your house -- on a particular night. Or maybe even worse, that you would be at the observatory late, closing up by yourself. Seemed like a good reason to keep it private. There were other reasons too, like mentioning when the security system was on the fritz or how terrible that scout troop behaved last night or whatever.

Seems like there would be similiarly good reasons to keep most, if not all, of the rest of the forums private also. The Outreach and Road Trip SIG similiarly tell everyone when you won't be home or when it will just be your spouce and kids there! Same with the General Annoucements forum. Some of the other discussions I think might be better if just club members saw also.

I know its nice to give non-members a feel for the club before they join, but the rest of the web site does a pretty good job at that and all they have to do is pay the $24 if they want to investigate further.

Tim
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Brad E
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Post by Brad E »

I would agree, for the sake of safety and concern for all involved i think the forums should be private, and inaccessible until one is a member, I too try to keep off the Google.. er.. I mean 'Grid" so I completely concur with the privacy idea.
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Jupiter
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Post by Jupiter »

This is an easy change... All that would need to be done is to change each of the public forums viewing access from "All" to "Registered". Basically requiring you to be registered and logged in to view the forums.



FYI... You can stay off the grid and still keep the forums public. You can go in to your profile and set "Always show my e-mail address:" to "NO". Your email becomes private to all users except Admins and Moderators.
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wkocken
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Post by wkocken »

I voted for Private. In this era, I don't see any need to have this open to everyone out there to see.

So here's another thing to think about. I think anyone can sign up and be admited to the forums. Am I correct? Should we go further and require that you be an active MAS member? If so, how would we enforce that?


Bill
Bill Kocken
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merle
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Post by merle »

I'd like to keep it public with restrictions in place (maybe add some restrictions?)

I like Ron's ideas of real names and a place to add a real picture. As mentioned, "don't we join a group like this to be MORE social?"

I would like to keep MOST forums open where anyone can view, of course keep Onan Keyholders private, but maybe make private (if not already) the profile of the members. Clicking on one's profile with access to PM's and email address, etc. could be a place to add the REAL picture in addition to you public avatar.

Maybe put restrictions on all the SIG's, and observatory/training discussions (anything that is for MAS members).

BUT, you don't need to be a MAS member to go to the forums. Even with added restrictions, can't anyone simply join the forums and gain access to the "restricted" information???

There has to be something between public and paranoid.
Clear skies,
Merle Hiltner
MAS Eagle Lake Observatory
Onan Observatory • Sylvia A. Casby Observatory • HotSpot Classroom
merle.hiltner@gmail.com
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Jupiter
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Post by Jupiter »

Like I mentioned in the other thread..... If you want a picture to identify people, using your avatar for that is the best option. Having real names will be a part of the message board upgrade.

I may attempt to do the upgrade sometime this weekend. It just depends on a few technical things.
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Dale Smith
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Post by Dale Smith »

I have also had the concern that Tim mentioned about advertising when we will be away. For that reason I think the Outreach forum should stay members-only. Similar reasoning would apply to several of the other sections under MAS Operations. I am somewhat torn regarding MAS Announcements. Many of our events are open to the general public and so knowledge of the last minute go/no go decision making process can be of use to non-MAS people.

I think the General Astronomy, Marketplace and Equipment sections, as well as most of the SIGs would probably be OK to leave public.

That's my 2¢ worth.
FF2Rydia
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Post by FF2Rydia »

Well, if we're going to talk about securing specific forums and leaving others open, I think that the Beginners SIG forum, especially, should be public, at least to view. I know that some people think that SIG = members only, but the Beginners SIG has questions by beginners that, really, don't get answered elsewhere on the site and are applicable to beginners, whether they are MAS members yet or not.
Last edited by FF2Rydia on Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kris Hultner
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Dick Jacobson
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Post by Dick Jacobson »

Suggestion: how about if we have two forum groups, a "Public Forums" page (inquiry accessible to anyone) and a "Private Forums" page (inquiry only for MAS members)? I don't want to create extra work for the forum administrator, but this might be a good way for everyone to be aware of whether their postings are visible to the entire world or not. The Public Forums page would contain general astronomy discussions, space exploration, telescope making, off topic, etc. while the Private Forums page would include internal club activities - announcements, star parties, discussions related to our observing sites.
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TimBiros
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Post by TimBiros »

That sounds like a good idea to me!

My biggest concern is the road trip SIG. Maybe when you live in the city you might feel different, but out here, where your nearest neighbor is 1/8 mile away or more, you feel a little more vunerable. It's bad enough to announce to everyone in the club when your loved ones will be on their own for a week, I definetly don't like telling everyone on the Web. The Outreach SIG would be my second choice to be 'members only' for the same reason.

I think all the Forums in the MAS Operations box should be private also so we are free to talk more candidly. Same thing with the MAS Discussions Forum. The rest of the forums could be public. Dale Smith makes a good point about leaving the Annoucements Forum public. I too am torn on this one. Since the star party 'go or no-go' is generally listed on the home page and the phone line, I don't think it is really necessary to give public access to this. There are other annoucements here too though, so if this were left public I guess that would be ok. If it remains public though, don't expect me to respond to calls for ISPs or training or other events on it. I have been hesitant in the past to respond to this stuff because of this.

I really think Dick, Dale, and the others that suggested this dual approach have a good idea here. 'MAS Public Forums' and 'MAS Members Only Forums'.

And thanks Ron for bringing this subject up. I meant to do this years ago, but for various reasons I got discouraged from bringing up any new ideas. Hopefully this one isn't too unreasonable to be implimented.

Tim
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Bob Young
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Post by Bob Young »

It would be alot easier for the Outreach to be private, that way I dont have to feel bad about leaving email addys or phone numbers there.
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Jupiter
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Post by Jupiter »

I have changed most of the SIG groups so that you need to be registered and logged in to view them. (except beginner)

I left the general area alone.

I also changed a few other areas so that you must be logged in to view them.
Jon Hickman
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Post by Jon Hickman »

Further to Craig's comment. I intend to create a separate Outreach Requests area where non-members (yes, members, too) will be able to post requests for the O-Team. It is not designed as an area to discuss the needs of a specific outreach event - that will continue to be the Outreach Forum - it simply gives guests a place to ask for help.
FF2Rydia
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Post by FF2Rydia »

Jon Hickman wrote:Further to Craig's comment. I intend to create a separate Outreach Requests area where non-members (yes, members, too) will be able to post requests for the O-Team. It is not designed as an area to discuss the needs of a specific outreach event - that will continue to be the Outreach Forum - it simply gives guests a place to ask for help.
Very good idea, Jon!
Kris Hultner
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Chip
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Post by Chip »

.


....... my 2 cents (and overpriced at that lol)

Good plan ... This whole Forums area is shown on the main page (MAS Welcome) as "Members", so I imagine quite a few people don't enter it because they feel it somehow improper to come in and look around as things have been running. Perhaps the main page will just call it "Forums" (omitting word "Members")? Then the Forums index page could be split with "Public" or whatever above the line and "Members" below? Just an idea....


But it's a good plan to encourage non-member people to register, seems to me....

Good luck, and I'm sure we'll all be patient if delays crop up, but all surely hope for quick and elegant process now...

---Tom
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merle
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Post by merle »

Here's what we need...

Public: Anyone can view & post. MAS Announcements, General Astronomy, MAS Discussions, Marketplace/Exchange, Equipment, Gadgets and Stuff, Beginners SIG, Outreach requests, Space Exploration, Off Topic? etc.


Semi-Private: Need to register to post & view. Imaging SIG, Observing SIG, Radio Astronomy SIG, Research SIG, Telescope Making SIG,


Private: Need to register AND be a MAS member. Outreach, Cherry Grove Observatory Discussions, Long Lake Conservation Center Discussions, Metcalf / Belwin Discussions, Onan Observatory Discussions, Onan Training, Onan Keyholders (need to be keyholder as well), RSP 2009 Discussions, RSP 2008 Discussions, Dark-sky Site Selection & Issues, Road Trip SIG, Forum Help, Comments, Board Discussions, Holding Tank, Sand Box, Onan Equipment Strategy


...or something like that?


Thoughts?
Clear skies,
Merle Hiltner
MAS Eagle Lake Observatory
Onan Observatory • Sylvia A. Casby Observatory • HotSpot Classroom
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SEmert
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Post by SEmert »

That sounds very much like a suggestion Bill had:
Bill K. wrote:As for the forums, I think someone proposed an idea that would have a "guest" area for non-members. I expanded on this and come up with 3 levels.

3 levels:
1. Selected members only, i.e., Onan Keyholders, Board, some committees, etc.
2. MAS Members can read and post to any area except level 1.
3. Guests can post only to the guest forum, and read most levels except level 1.

I have no idea if this is feasible, just my 2 cents.
Sounds like a good idea to me too, if it's feasible with the software.
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merle
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Post by merle »

Yep, great idea Bill :)
Clear skies,
Merle Hiltner
MAS Eagle Lake Observatory
Onan Observatory • Sylvia A. Casby Observatory • HotSpot Classroom
merle.hiltner@gmail.com
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